The Elevate Media Podcast
Join Chris as he chats with successful business owners and entrepreneurs and shares his own lessons and successes of building Elevate Media Group.
His mission is to help coaches bring in more clients through video podcasting and content creation so they can elevate their brands and become the experts in their industries without all the time spent doing it.
The Elevate Media Podcast
What Every Entrepreneur Gets Wrong About Building Their Dream Team
Kasim Aslam, founder of Solutions 8 and expert in hiring remote top 1% talent, reveals how entrepreneurs can build extraordinary teams by treating people as "miracles" rather than commodities. He shares his counterintuitive approach to finding and empowering exceptional talent while leveraging AI as a tool that makes human uniqueness more valuable than ever.
• Entrepreneurs are "broken people" who experience dopamine during pursuit rather than achievement of goals
• Most business books treat employees as interchangeable commodities, leading to mediocre results
• The Pareto principle shows that 20% of people produce 80% of results – fight this natural distribution at your peril
• US employers struggle to hire top talent locally as they compete with tech giants and entrepreneurship
• International hiring creates win-win situations where your US company becomes an aspirational employer
• Pay 10% above the high watermark (not median) to access talent that performs 10-100x better
• Use paid trial projects instead of resumes and interviews to identify exceptional candidates
• AI replaces tasks rather than jobs, making mediocre employees dangerous while making exceptional ones more valuable
• Delegate projects not tasks, and focus on outputs rather than time spent
• Virtual work requires intentional connection through small teams, shared interests, and occasional in-person gatherings
Start building your dream team today by identifying what miracle workers you need and creating the conditions for them to thrive.
This episode is NOT sponsored. Some product links are affiliate links, meaning we'll receive a small commission if you buy something.
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Welcome to the Elevate Media podcast with your host, chris Anderson. In this show, chris and his guests will share their knowledge and experience on how to go from zero to successful entrepreneur. They have built their businesses from scratch and are now ready to give back to those who are just starting. Let's get ready to learn, grow and elevate our businesses. And now your host, chris Anderson.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another recording of the Elevate Media Podcast. I'm Chris Anderson, your host, and today we're going to be discussing hiring. So if you're at the point in your journey where you're bringing a team on, you're bringing individuals on to help you grow and scale, take things over that you might not be the best at, this episode is going to be for you. Plus, we're going to tie it into the AI side of things that we've got going on in the world lately and all that craziness. So excited to dive into this episode.
Speaker 2:Today's guest is going to be a treat for everyone. He has built five, seven and eight-figure companies. He's had two eight-figure exits, is known as the guy for hiring remote top 1% talent. So he's got the wherewithal and the knowledge around these topics some of his achievements and we could be here all day for that. But he's founder of Solutions 8, which is an eight-figure exit company, co-host of the Perpetual Traffic Show, top 50 digital marketing thought leader, bestselling author. So, yeah, you're in for a treat today and if you ever struggled to hire or keep someone, the right people, on your team, this episode is going to change how you think about doing that. So, kossum man, welcome to the Elevate Media Podcast today.
Speaker 3:Man, yeah, I appreciate you having me, chris, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, excited to dive into this topic and, um, you know kind of to dive right in, you know entrepreneurship's not for everybody right. Being successful in entrepreneurship isn't, uh, going to happen for everyone. I still think we've got a long way to go before I can say I'm successful. So for you, you know what? What even got you started into entrepreneurship and business man?
Speaker 3:I failed at everything else. I'm supremely unemployable.
Speaker 2:Who's your last chance, right, yeah, this is all I had Let you know, success was my only option.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of truth to that, though. I think that you know, when we say entrepreneurship's not for everyone else, I actually think that it's not meant to be an elitist statement. I think entrepreneurs are broken people. There's a book by Douglas Brackman it's called Driven. It's what my business partner named our mastermind after but he talks about the epigenetic phenomenon that produces entrepreneurs, and we're broken effectively in the way that we experience dopamine.
Speaker 3:90% of people who Douglas terms as farmers experience dopamine upon the completion of a goal Dopamine, serotonin and I guess their norepinephrine drops. If I'm getting whatever chemical cocktail makes you happy, that's. I'm not a scientist, I don't know, I didn't go to school. Uh, so 90 of people experience that chemical cocktail when they achieve a goal. Good for them, god bless. That's the way god made humanity. It's how you're supposed to be entrepreneurs. The 10 who he terms hunters experience it in pursuit of the goal and, oddly, when you achieve the goal, it drops and you get.
Speaker 3:You know, and I think we've all been there to where, no matter what happens anything, any goal we've set for ourselves, as soon as we get there, we're like, oh, darn it. Um, yeah, what's the next one? Yeah, really and really. And I think that you know some folks are broken a little more than others. But that leads to this, to you, to me, to what we're doing, to why we do it, because it doesn't make any real sense. You know like, especially if you live in the first world man, the nine to five, that's a good gig, benefits and cushy offices and $12 croissants and high rises and what? 40, 40 days PTO a year Are you freaking, kidding me Right? Like just just stuff. That you're just like man, you know you never have to worry much about anything. And then there's still the rest of us. There's that fun saying it's the entrepreneur is the only person that'll work 80 hours a week, so I don't have to work 40. You're right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So here we are, man, man, so I guess I hope that's an answer I'm yeah I'm broken, like you're broken, yeah I was gonna say I'm, I just, I'm just different. That's all I was. I'm just different. I don't know, and it's not a good or bad thing, it's just I got tired of being told what to do with my time and money and how much I could make and what I could do or couldn't do, and so maybe I'm just stubborn and, yeah, I guess I.
Speaker 2:I just really liked the, the chase of something new in the adventure. I literally was thinking the other day, and maybe this kind of ties into that, like what frontier is left unconquered for us now? Like we, there's not much, right, like physical land wise. So it's like it's like, cause I have that drive like man, I would love to live back in the wild west where they're exploring the west of the us and just figuring it all out, or, uh, you know, even before then. So, like now, it's like the our, our final frontier, our wild frontier, is the unknowns of starting a brand new business, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, you have to go esoteric with it. It's like the mind technology, spirituality, space if you have the money, but you know you got to make a couple billion before you can launch a rocket, right? Yeah, ray Dalio is obsessed with the ocean, interestingly, so I guess that's most of our oceans are unexplored.
Speaker 2:That's true. I just would I don't want to drown, that's like one of my biggest yeah dude, deep bodies of water freak me out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, more than space. I'm with you. I'm fine on land. I like it here. I'll snorkel, okay. Yeah, but I won't go away from the bay like the people that go like deep water snorkeling. I did that. I think I was in puerto vallarta and they, like I signed up for this snorkeling excursion, not really paying attention what I was doing. Then we get on a boat and I'm like, oh, they're just gonna bring us to a prettier part.
Speaker 3:And no, they brought us like out oh gosh yeah, and then they were like all right, jump in.
Speaker 2:No, I, I like it here yeah, that's all right, I'll pass on that one too. Yeah, but no, I mean and I like how you put it like we're, we're broken in the best sense of the word. Um, but with that too, like understanding, that's huge. I think we're just different and and I think I have really, I like that. I have not actually I don't know if I've heard someone say that about people who are trying to build their own business and I really liked that because, um, I don't know, just there's so much along the journey, right, that we had to figure out along the way, and part of it is ourselves, um, and so realizing that we are different and that's okay.
Speaker 2:But like for you, as you've been on this journey and you figured that out, like, hey, I'm just different, like I'm broken and that's all right. What are some other things that you've learned or like mistakes you've made, specifically to like even building a team, because that's a hurdle in itself, trying to even take that step. What has that been for you? And any big mistakes you've made when building a team for the first time?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've made all the mistakes twice. I call myself the world's greatest failure, and it's not self-deprecation, it's actually something I'm kind of proud of. I feel forward. I'll tell you that the biggest mistake I have made is the biggest mistake we all make when it comes to talent acquisition, and I've got we were talking about my books before we hit record. I've got 3000 books in my house and I'd say 20% of them probably are some type of business and or self-improvement book. Okay, so bet money right now, today, and if you're listening to this and you're near your bookshelf, go to your bookshelf and pull any business book off the shelf, literally any one of them. And here's what I guarantee you, without a single exception and I'd love for somebody to challenge me on this Every business book treats people like commodities, treats them like, talks about them, refers to them, assumes that humans as an asset within the confines of a business substructure, that people are commodities and and you know that because, again, it's it's referential.
Speaker 3:They don't come right out and say it, but that's how we're taught to look at people, train people, pay people, trade people. You know like uh, and and and and to define terms. A commodity is something that's easily interchangeable. So if you have an ear of corn, right, and I have an ear of corn, and you and I swap, we are no better or worse off than we were moments ago, right, but if you have a cpa and I have a cpa, like, if, let's say, you and I swapped our cpas, like that's just, you know, like levels of catastrophe waiting for me that I can't even begin to articulate. Even if you have this, you, you have people that grew up in the same town, went to the same school, had the same background, same levels of experience, worked for the same company. Those are two uniquely valuable assets that are not interchangeable to any degree.
Speaker 3:And if you build a business around the commoditization of humanity, you end up with Quicken Loans or a GoDaddy call center or some soul-sucking, horrible, untenable revolving door of everything that's not human. And that's what's really interesting too. I actually really like. I think a lot of people are catastrophizing when it comes to AI. This is the greatest thing that's ever happened for me. Yeah, because all the things that ai does, that I can do, are the things that humans shouldn't be doing. Anyway, it's all I love. I hate the word scale, dude. If I could just, uh, if I could spray people in the face with a bottle of cold water every time I hear the word scale, like I'm not doing that because it doesn't scale.
Speaker 3:What's cool about AI is now, the only things that make money are the things that don't scale. If it scales, ai can do it, and so if it doesn't scale, that means that you need a human to do it, and humans are uniquely suited to doing most things. So I'm going to bring this all full circle. I promise you this all full circle. I probably. Yeah, uh, I've built that.
Speaker 1:My bio says five. It's actually now officially six we just have seven figures.
Speaker 3:Ttm, another business I own. I need to update that I've built six million or multi-million dollar businesses and I've done it all by finding truly extraordinary human beings and just getting getting out of their way. And there's the, the, the. If you're familiar with the Pareto distribution, which is a mathematical principle that exists in every organic ecosystem in the world, like you know, it's the 80, 20 rule 20% of the cows yield 80% of the milk and 20% of your customers are responsible for 80% of your revenue. 20% of your employees yield 80% of your output. 20% of your employees do 80% of your work in any organic ecosystem. But what's kind of cool about that, or what's amazing about it, if you really crack the code on it is you can index towards the 20% where most businesses again going back to the business books treating people like commodities.
Speaker 3:Most businesses are actually trying to flatten that, which is insane, because they want they don't want to see existential crises on an Excel file, cause it's all like a. You know Goldman Sachs Ivy league douchebags that think that they existential crises on an Excel file, cause it's all like a. You know Goldman Sachs Ivy league douchebags that think that they think that they know, like oh, you know, one person is responsible for too much. Let's distribute this risk, quote unquote. What happens when you flatten a pyramid? You lose the top of the pyramid, right, which is? That's the, that's the leverageable part, that's the 20% that are yielding the 80%. So you know, going to why you didn't want to have a job. You're like I was tired of being told what to do, right, you were tired of being treated like a commodity.
Speaker 3:If entrepreneurs can build businesses where people aren't treated like commodities, dude, you can have three, five, 10, 15, 20 people, businesses that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars now, but you go out and you find that Pareto talent, you find the 20% that does the 80%. And if you're willing to open your mind to the idea that people aren't just going to do the SOPs, they're not just going to check the boxes, they're not just going to do, you know, because that's what the business book teaches you, right, like it's oh, build a process and then find an easily interchangeable human and have them sit here on the assembly line doing the thing. That's gone, that's over. So now the question is what can ai not do and go build a business around that with people that are stellar, and and the way to find stellar people. By the way, nobody wants to hear this, which is funny because it's it's an easy button, as you pay more right, there's one to win yep, and you don't what my goal is to pay 10% more than the high watermark.
Speaker 3:And when people that are listening to this might hear oh, 10%, that's not bad. That's not what I said. I said 10% more than the high watermark. So if the window is, let's say, 70, just to throw numbers out there, okay, 75k to 100K is this the salary range? Well, 10% more than the high watermark is $110,000. That's 40% more than the 75K that you, as the entrepreneur, have been taught to try to go get this commodity for, because commodities are traded. When you're buying commodities you're trying to buy for, you want the most for the least. When you're finding proto-talent, you want to pay more, because paying 10, 20, 30, 40, 50% more gets you somebody that does 10, 50, 100 times more. And dude, I'm not being hyperbolic, I'm not exaggerating.
Speaker 3:When I sold my business, I built the number one ranked Google ads agency in the world, and when I sold it, one person was responsible for 40% of my revenues. Name's John Moran. It's the greatest Google ads mind in the world. I ended up having to make him a business partner because he's so important. That's what happens, and it happens again in every organic ecosystem, if you allow it to. So like finding those people. That's what's cool is you can index towards those people and then you can build these entities. I built the number one ranked Google ads agency in the world. I've never run a Google ad campaign in myself and in my life I wouldn't know how to. I had the highest performing real estate investment campaign on the planet before I was ever a real estate investor or knew anything about lead generation.
Speaker 3:I've built the number one Montessori agency in the English speaking world. I'm not a trained Montessorian, nor do I own a school. I own a talent agency out of Latin America. I don't speak Spanish, dude. What's funny is I get to do all these things and then people see me. If you're listening and not watching, I look homeless. I haven't had a haircut in God knows how long. I wear shorts and a t-shirt every day. I'm not presentable. I like I'm more successful than I deserve to be and it's not because I'm smarter than anybody, it's because I find people smarter than me. And then I get out of the way. Yep, so many entrepreneurs are like oh, I need to be involved in this process and I'm like no.
Speaker 3:Definitely do not.
Speaker 2:I love that point because, like right now, where we are in Elevate, like we have three solid people on the team but we're we're small still. So, like my point, my part is guiding but still letting them be in their strength. And so, like navigating, that for the first time has been, uh, I'm doing my best and learning as I go, kind of thing. But it's it's cool to see that like those individuals lean into their strengths and like come up with stuff. I was like oh shoot, yeah, I wouldn't have thought of that or I wouldn't have done that, like and get stuff done. It's just, it's a cool thing to be a part of um and be able to support them, you know, financially, you know. However, else I can support them as a, as a leader, but then them come back of what they're giving is just, you know, it's humbling to me to be a part and have those kind of people.
Speaker 2:For, for people who are starting though, who might not have the funds Cause I know you said pay, you know you know 10% above watermark how do you attract people on your team? How do you structure that If you don't have the funds to be able to pay for those type people, or is it just you find the ones you can afford and then eventually find the next level of people? How's? And then eventually find the next level of people? How do you?
Speaker 3:kind of guide people with that. I'm about to get canceled in this conversation, so we'll dance around it to the best of our abilities, chris, and then you feel free to edit out whatever you feel is incendiary. Where are you based geographically?
Speaker 2:Indiana, so Midwest.
Speaker 3:Okay, I really like the Midwest for the reasons I'm about to say. If you are in an emerged nation, right, and what does that mean? In a PC world, it's like US, canada, western Europe. If you're in a place where people's needs are not only satiated but there is social safety nets A and then B, there is a rich and vibrant startup and or corporate community, the odds of you being able to hire Pareto talent are slim. Because why? If I'm a kid fresh out of school, I either want to go work for Google, amazon, microsoft, apple, facebook or a company offering rich stock options in a startup environment where I could potentially become a millionaire in two, three, four years, or I want to go work for myself. That's where the peak talent goes. And God bless our country, dude.
Speaker 3:We made it easy to be an entrepreneur. It has never, ever, ever, ever been easier to be an entrepreneur and there's no real downside risk, and I'm saying that on an anthropological scale. I realize that there's risk and we're assuming risk, but you are not going to starve, you're not going to be homeless. We have this, this world, where there's no real tangible existential threat to you for taking this massive swing. So what does that mean Employers in the Western world don't have access to parental talent because you, even if you could match the Google, amazon, Microsoft to Apple Facebook salary which you cannot you don't have the name. Yeah, you don't have the cachet, you don't have. It's not fun for me to put your name on LinkedIn. There's no way you could meet the benefits, right, you know like, there's just there's no ability for you to be an aspirational employer until you go international.
Speaker 3:Yep, if you hire out of Latin America, asia, north Africa, eastern Europe, those folks look at you the way people here look at Google, amazon, microsoft. They're like oh God, you're, you're, I'll get to work for a U S company getting paid U S dollars. And and if you ratchet that up a little bit, like I, my favorite place to hire out of is Latin America right now, for a bunch of reasons Time zones are consistent, english proficiency super high, cultural dissimilarities fall pretty significantly. Cultural dissimilarities fall pretty significantly, um, etc. Etc. And paying in the us dollar has really significant arbitrage opportunities. Yeah, uh and dude, you know like I'm hiring out of bogota, columbia right now. I actually just got back from um columbia and most the the largest um industry in bogota is call centers.
Speaker 1:Okay, you ever worked at a call center?
Speaker 3:I have not. I worked at two. As a kid I worked at MCI in this place called Zentel. That was effectively like stealing money from firefighters and burn victim units. It was weird. I wonder if they're still around.
Speaker 3:Call centers are the modern day coal mines. They're horrible. You know, you show up and it's 10 hours in this fluorescent light building and then and I was doing outbound calls, so like you're just the phone rings and you're praying to God you're like, oh, please don't pick up, right, and it's just, it's just terrible. So I'm taking people in Bogota, colombia, out of these call center environments. They get to work from home. They get to, they get paid more than they make domestically. They work on a semi-flexible schedule. And when I say semi-flexible, all I mean is I'm not clocking you in right on the minute and clocking you out on the minute and you have to ask me to take your kid to a dental appointment, right, um, and they do meaningful work, yep and dude, like the, the, the, the level of talent. I can't begin to articulate the change. So if you're the level of talent, I can't begin to articulate the change. So if you're and I'm going to say I imagine we're talking to a majority US audience. If you're a US employer and you've said things like it's so hard to find good help these days and if you want something done, good like do it yourself, that's all. That's all horseshit. Yeah, there are amazing people, there are unbelievable humans that run through walls and solve problems and built and we know that because we see it all the time. You're just not set up in the position of what would you call that. You're not in a leverageable position for receiving. Put yourself in that position by finding people that would actually be really grateful to work for you, and imagine that for just a moment. Imagine what it would be like to have somebody who's unbelievably grateful to work for you because because their life circumstances changed so much in the way that you're treating them and then how you're paying them, and and then cascade that forward across every level of analysis in your business.
Speaker 3:When I sold solutions eight, I had a hundred employees, or close closing in on a hundred employees. Six of them were in the United States. Yeah, the rest of them were everywhere else. And, dude, I had, I had 40% margins in an industry that aimed at 15%, aims at 15%, because we were massively more efficient. I had better people than anybody else could possibly fathom, and the one question I got during due diligence, which was an eight month process, was where do you find these people Like? This is unreal, and it's because I was paying more. I was treating them like adults and I wasn't looking for people that were manageable.
Speaker 3:That's the other thing that entrepreneurs do wrong Entrepreneurs and they don't like to admit this, but as you get older it becomes obvious, especially young entrepreneurs. But I think all entrepreneurs are actually afraid of competence. They don't like, because if somebody's smarter than me, especially if I'm small, you know I'm a small business owner, I've got four employees and you know whatever it is that do I'm. Let's say I'm a baker. I don't want. I own a bakery. I don't want someone who bakes better than me, because what? What am I here for now?
Speaker 3:you know, what I mean. And then what's going to stop them from taking over the whole shop? And now there's a coup and and a mutiny at that. You know the ss bakery, and uh, what people don't realize is exactly what you and I talked about at the beginning of this conversation most people, people, are not entrepreneurial. You want those folks. You want people that are better, faster, stronger, smarter, braver, more articulate, more thoughtful, more interesting, and then you find, wherever it is, that they're a miracle, and then you let them, you cut them loose. So don't build a template and say, oh well, I'm going to hire, you know, jane or John, and Jane or John's going to come in here and press this button and pull this lever and do this thing. How about hire Jane or John or Sally or Muhammad or whoever, and then just watch them, because it would do.
Speaker 3:What happens in in the productive world is we give somebody 10 things to do, they suck at two. They do six, just fine, check the box, well done. And then they do two better than any human has ever done those two things in the history of of task management, and what we've been taught to do by all these great business books that surround me is to go focus on the two they suck at and we're like, all right, we're gonna get you there, we're gonna build a performance improvement program and you know, you're gonna shadow sally because sally knows it's like. It's like, stop that. How about we take these two things that they're amazing at and that becomes their job, you know, but that's the problem, dude, is it doesn't scale well, that doesn't scale well. All right, fine, great, good for you. Go build a business that ai can replace overnight, you know?
Speaker 3:Or maybe look at people like they're literal do. The human being is a miracle, like a literal. I'm saying literal the way, not like a millennial says it, I'm saying it as a person who understands the meaning of the word people, I don't care if you don't believe in God. Actually, for people who don't believe in God, a person, is even more of a miracle it's like, are you?
Speaker 3:just these super smart apes running around building shit and solving problems and going to the moon. You know what I mean. Like every human is a literal miracle and if you treat them that way, you get like if you look for miracles, you find miracles. And if you look for a cog in the machine, that's going to be an interchangeable commodity.
Speaker 2:That's what you get too right, yeah, and it's like it's crazy. Like the first team member we had is from ghana, yeah, and he's been amazing and he's he's just went above and beyond you know expectations and like it's it's led into you know you expectations and like it's it's led into you know. You know what we have today, really, um and it was, and it's the same thing. Like they're really good at, or he was really good at, editing Um and so that's what he focused on and and he's and that's what I try to do with the rest. Like we brought on our director of marketing and content strategy, like do your thing.
Speaker 2:And I've said I tell them, like I this is not like if I have ideas, but if you're like, hey, no, that doesn't work at all. Like just tell me. Like I'm cool with that, like this is your guys' area or whatever. Like I just come with ideas sometimes. And they're like, yeah, no, that's stupid. And so I was like and I'm like I'm fine with that. Like I told him today. I was like if it gets too complicated, you smack my hands and Chris, like dude, no, like you're, you're making this way too hard and I'm like I'm not above reproach. Like you guys have your strengths, I have mine. We're working together. Just cause I'm like started, this doesn't mean I'm anything above anyone else, and so I think that's and people don't realize that, like there are so many people out there looking for these opportunities in the U S, outside the U S, that you can find, like to your point, talent that is ready to be a part of something bigger than themselves.
Speaker 3:That's what people want. Do they want a vision? And I think, for you and for the person listening, who's probably an entrepreneur, when you ask yourself, you know, at the end of my little tirade and hopefully it wasn't too soapboxy you shouldn't have anything left, like there should be no tasks left for you, cause you've you've hired for all of them. Your job is to work on the business and what that means specifically is define the vision.
Speaker 3:Vision is so important and it's it's a lot of lip service, but people spend very little time on it. But when you really like, you're like oh, this is my gig, this is what I'm doing. I'm letting everybody know here's, this is the direction that we're heading and here's how we're going to get there. And and vision isn't just where, but it's also how you know, here are the values with which we're going to articulate ourselves and then holding to that Like that's enough of a job all by itself. Yeah, you know, and if you can crack that code, my favorite answer in the whole world is I don't know. Yep, because somewhere the report, I don't know what, what, what do we do? I have no idea. How do we, I don't know, go and then it's, it's I don't at the f out, but I don't. I don't want to be on the org trot anymore.
Speaker 2:You know, like I'm a business builder, I'm not a c something or a vp of this or that, whatever, like, don't talk to me it reminds me right, it reminds me of, I think, the story of henry ford, who was being, I want to say, like on trial or something. Something happened in his organization and so he had a bunch of the board members or something like coming to him and saying like hey, you know, why did this happen or how does that work, kind of thing. And he's like I don't know. They're like wait, they're like you don't know. He's like no, they're like reached over.
Speaker 2:He picked up a phone. He said but I can call exactly who on my team does know. He said that's what I like. I build a team so I don't have to know it all. I have better people in those positions than me to get that done. And that just always resonated me. Once I heard that, I was like that's, that's it. Like uh, there are so many people that are better than us and so many different things. Like bring them together and create something amazing to make such a big impact in the world.
Speaker 3:Dude, if you picture right now an organization run by a person who is the smartest, best, fastest, brightest, most creative person in that org, you know what I mean. That's a sad. You don't picture a superhuman surrounded by other demigods. You actually picture this just sad, maybe jealous, but egotistical, whatever, surrounded by a yes-man. Oh yeah, yeah, we want and you want. The problem is, entrepreneurs want manageable people. They want people that they know they can control, but manageable people have to be managed. If you want people that take your business and run with it that don't need to be managed, you have to contend with people. Like you said, you're not above reproach. Most people don't necessarily have, you know, at least not as an as an a priori preexisting framework. That's. That's not where they're approaching life from, and and you can learn that the easy way or the hard way yeah, um, man, once you get there, like, oh my God, just get out of their way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what. What I like, even in the moment now, like understanding, like, okay, I gotta get more out of the way, and so, like navigating that and anything for me, like growing up, like playing soccer and sports and stuff, like understanding my position, I knew, like, even if I wasn't starting, um, or if I was hurt, or like, I still had a position and that was to cheer people on, that was to do my best of practice to you know, the varsity get better by just really, uh, being a being, a, just a fly on it, like and just taking it to them and making them have to work hard. So, like, I knew my position, whatever helped the team um for our ultimate goal of winning. And it's the same kind of mindset I bring into the business. Like I want to build a team with the mission of, you know, making a bigger impact in the world through what we do, and we can do it together. We can all succeed and have you know what we want out of life, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So for you like, where, where do you like, where can people like go to find these type of people, especially if they're starting overseas? Like, are there, are there channels that you guide people to going and connecting with Like indeed, is it still a good thing, linkedin, still like? Where do you kind of guide people to find these individuals? Depends on where you are where you're targeting geographically.
Speaker 3:I actually I just I'm about to publish a book called hire which I'm giving away for free, so people can go to costumeme if they want the book. There's no, you know, paywall or anything. They can literally have it, and in the book I have a resource that includes a directory of a bunch of hiring portals. Yeah, but to answer your question directly, so this doesn't feel like a bait and switch. Linkedin is great for Latin America, almost all of Latin America, broadly speaking. I like smaller professional job boards if you're looking for individual roles. So if you want a graphic designer, go find you know what dude. It's a traffic problem and what marketers know. All good marketers know that traffic problems are solved by more conduits of traffic. So if you just go to Indeed and post your job posting on Indeed, well congratulations, you're now at the mercy of Indeed. Instead, go find all the little tributaries. So that would be like you know Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups and networking communities and you know telegram threads which, by the way, they're all so easy to access and the one thing from a commercial perspective they'll allow you to post that doesn't have to do with whatever topic it is they're discussing is job opportunities because that helps them bring something really valid to their community. So, you know, if you need a Ruby on Rails developer or you're looking for somebody who's really good at content writing, but they have to speak Mandarin or whatever, like no matter how specific it is, yes, go to the job boards, of course, and their regional job boards. You know, if you want to hire out of the Philippines, it's onlinejobph. If you want Pakistan, it's rosypk. India has 150 of them. So go, like, the job boards, yes, definitely, and try to find the pools of talent, figure out where they hang out. And there's a ton of school groups that are free. There's a ton of, like, you know, whatever those little communities or masterminds are and make it hard. In my book I talk about what I call fly traps.
Speaker 3:Um, if you're really looking for pareto talent, like if you're looking for the top, you know, when we train ea's which is what I do professionally now it takes a thousand applicants to produce one vetted ea. Wow, and and we put them through. Hell, dude, we put them through like what I would consider. You know, it's like navy seal training. You want to do something really similar, because if you're paying 10% more than high watermark, you earn a position of aspiration.
Speaker 3:So I do some really basic things, like at the top of every job description I have, it says to apply. Please make sure the subject line reads I actually read the instructions. Yep, because I'll get no joke. I'll get 9,000 submissions for one role and you can play auto filter. Now to where, if it doesn't say actually read the instructions, it automatically archives and never see it. And then, of the ones that I see and it's not me, it's my EA now filtering them. But if they don't actually follow the instructions, you know, and I'll do little, really benign things like make sure that your email or your resume reads you know this, this uh, I want a link instead of an attachment, I want a PDF and I want this naming convention. Little, little little stuff like that, the most important fly trap that I use that I would encourage everybody to use.
Speaker 3:We're taught to hire based off of interviews and resumes, which I think is so, so, so, so, so, so stupid, because they tell you nothing. Instead, I do a trial project, so I get people to submit, I shortlist to 10 to 20 people and then I send them a message and I'll say hey, chris, I've been hiring for 20 years. I know nothing is. We're not going to have a productive discussion until I'm able to work with you, so why don't you let me pay you in advance? I'll send you whatever a reasonable amount of money is for that geography. You know, if you're in the Philippines, 20 bucks is great. I'll send you 20 bucks to do two hours worth of work. How does that sound? You say yes. I say great, send me your PayPal and I'll I'll prepay you.
Speaker 3:Here's the funny part, though. I prepay them and so like, let's say, you did this with 10 people, it's $200. And you think like, oh golly, $200, shucks, that's, that's, you know, a pretty hefty expense for every new hire I want to make. Well, hear me out. I prepay everybody and I wait to see who ghosts me, cause if somebody were to steal 20 bucks from you, that's not somebody you want to hire, so I would pay 10 times that to learn that lesson right out of the gate. And then there are people that they're not trying to steal from you, but they're not very accountable.
Speaker 3:I'll get folks that follow up a month later being like, hey, you never sent me the trial project. I'm like, oh, you don't say Uh, and then the people that follow up. You put more fly traps in their way if you want to, but once you have the trial projects and they've done you know the work, dude, I don't need an interview anymore. I still do it to. You know, walk through the process. I mean, by the time you're done with a process like that, you end up with like bloodthirsty assassins, just killers that you're just you're thrilled to be working with. And it's not uncommon for me to hire multiple people for the same role, cause I'm like I can't afford not to hire both of you and I know I'm growing enough to justify that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So that that you'd build it like a funnel. It's a sales funnel just like anything else. Make it attractive on the top end and then filter a ton of people out. Whoever comes in the bottom is going to be epic.
Speaker 2:Absolutely no. I love that and you know, I think that's a great piece of advice. Is that trial project? Because how do you know you're going to measure it's going to work well if you don't even know how they work? Because, like you said, the resume and stuff is just kind of platitudes, it's just showing whatever on paper but it doesn't show the actual results that they can provide. So how does that? How do you know? Okay, so let's kind of dive into that. So if you're hiring for these positions, how do you know what is worth hiring a person for versus using AI? Because I know you kind of mentioned the scalable part. Then you know kind of use AI for that. Can you kind of walk into the differentiation of when to use AI versus when to hire?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm in. This is a philosophical position that I think some people can choose to disagree with if they'd like to. I don't know that. The winners and the losers are going to be easily fleshed out in short order, so it's easy for me to speck in the bushy babble Now. I'd ask everybody who's listening to just temper what I'm saying against your own wisdom. That said, I don't think AI is a top down initiative. I think that's obvious, and here's what I mean by that. You don't bring in a consultant who's like oh Chris, I'm going to help you redesign elevate media group using AI. You're going to put this AI tool here and this AI tool here and we're going to sew those together and bam, that's not the way this is going to manifest.
Speaker 3:Ai is a bottom-up initiative, and what that means is your employee from ghana is editing and has, you know, six hours worth of editing on their slate today and says you know what I do? I spend a lot of time in transcription. I can use d script for the transcription and I can use this for the, and then they start to kind of sew in that this very specific tool for this very specific implementation. You know, unless it's different, like it's if this, then that, except when, right, it's like I'm only using descript if the, if the transcriptions in english, because if it's in spanish, I know this other tool works better. It has to be bottom up, yeah. So, mr and mrs entrepreneur, I don't think you pick when you use ai. I think you bring in really intelligent people that know what the hell they're doing, and then your incentives aren't built around, they're built around output. Yep, so the the worst things employers do is they misalign incentives with their employees, and a one really, really, really good way to misalign incentives, by the way, is to pay people for time. Right, because paying people for time, it's like, all right, I can just sit here. If you want me to sit here, you know, but if you want me to create videos, it's like dude, I'll give you 10 bucks for every short you make. And then you find out like, oh you, you don't just make 50 shorts a day, you can make 5,000 shorts a day because you got really smart with, and you think yourself like, oh golly, now I have to pay $10 per short. Well, okay, yeah, and if you are in a leverageable business, you're charging, you know, $1,000 or whatever it is that you're charging and so you put yourself in a position where you have aligned incentives. So that's my answer is I don't think AI is going to replace roles wholesale.
Speaker 3:I think it's going to replace tasks, and then those people are going to be allowed to expand. That's why you want Pareto talent, because if you hire mediocre talent pre-AI there was a place for mediocre talent. Let's say that you're a graphic design shop, right, and you have your A players, but every now and then there's overflow that comes in. Well, you've got Jerry and Jerry's a six out of 10 scale, but that's okay because Jerry can knock out some of the overflow. Well, now take Jerry and put the nuclear weapon that is AI on Jerry, right, you just scaled mediocrity, the moon, and to scale six out of 10 averages your business down to failure. So you don't want to ever scale a Jerry, you want to get rid of all your Jerry's and you want to only have your A plus talent, your 11s out of 10s, because now it's like we're not going to have an overflow problem, we're going to have a quality of output problem.
Speaker 3:Bill Gates has a great quote. He says that automation applied to an inefficient system only amplifies the inefficiency. That's going to be true to AI to degrees that are hard to articulate. So I and that's dude. That's the other thing. That's why I also think that the what you need are miracles and not commodities, because the commodity person is the role player.
Speaker 2:The miracle person is the person that continues to be valuable regardless of how the role changes, and they're the ones that teach you how the role changes yeah, yeah, I think that and that's and that's an interesting thing too like with roles changing, like we've seen more in our, you know, last handful of years, with virtual work changing right Like the landscape of. I know that you know they're making people come back to office and stuff, but there's still the hybrid based on businesses, like how do you lead, how do you guide your team through virtual connections, because you know we're not all in office here at Elevate and so how do you kind of guide with that, with those changes?
Speaker 3:It's harder. I think people who think that virtual work can be just as integrated as in-person work are wrong, and this is I mean. I've built now a half dozen virtual businesses. But there are things you can do. We have an all hands meeting every Friday. In the all hands meeting there's an open mic where one person presents on something they're passionate about that has nothing to do with work. We have, like fun Slack threads on like books or movies or travel, or kids or pets.
Speaker 3:I like to break people up into smaller pods so that they're working in small groups and communities. At Solutions 8, we had a strategist, a specialist, small groups and communities. At solutions eight, we had a strategist, a specialist and a client manager and, and they manage the same slate of clients, okay, and so like finding ways to make sure that people don't lose. You know, semblances of human connection are really important. We also get together, like I just went to bogota with my team. There's no reason to do that other than we wanted to.
Speaker 3:You know, all get together and meet, belly to belly and have fun, and, and we had a little party for all of our EAs and you know that was. I don't know how much that cost us. I bet you it approached five, six grand, maybe more than that, and it was really important because we all got to know each other and, you know, not every entity can afford that. I do think that we lose something not being together, not being in person. Obviously right, we have to, and but I think that the the the benefits outweigh the costs most of the time yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like the in-person stuff and we're about 50 50, um, and so, yeah, it's definitely a different landscape to navigate that and keep people connected and keep them feeling like they're not on an island and things like that and um, so, yeah, it's just curious, it's. I mean, it's an interesting thing. We're still, you know, we still have to navigate and figure out nowadays, so, um, but no, it's been a man, it's been a great conversation. Um, I'd love to end with kind of like some just rapid fire questions and just dive into these and um, so what, what would you say is the most under underrated skill in hiring?
Speaker 3:Uh, well, to be honest with you, I think it's the onboarding and the training. Okay, is that a good answer, chris? Because it's not. I mean, hiring happens pre-training and I think, where people think, oh, I hired the wrong person, no, you might have found somebody that's great. And then you bring them on and you screw them up. People don't know how to delegate. They think that you know they don't understand. Authorship creates ownership. So I see employers ruining. I own a staffing agency. We place executive assistants and I know they're assassins. And then I place them in an organization and then I watch them get melted.
Speaker 3:You know like they they take this really proficient person, dude, imagine a really smart person who's driving, and you're like turn left here, turn right there, or they're creating, and you're like make the square circle change red to blue, like right. It doesn't take many times of that before somebody takes their hand off the wheel and they're like all right, you're driving now. Yep, obviously. You know like let them drive, delegate projects, not tasks, don't harp on little things. If it's subjective, let it go. You're not always right, uh, and? And if people are willing to do that and they're willing to train in a way, that's not, that's actually symbiotic, it's not abusive. I think that, uh, they end up with really really good people. But that's the big mistake that I see people make is their onboarding is just abysmal okay, no, that's good, that's good and it's definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely something you've got to consider is how you're bringing them on and, yeah, there's so much to think about Favorite AI tool right now Chat, gpt. Yeah, pay for the pro Pay 200 bucks, yeah Cool. So with all the books behind you if you're watching this on video, all Um so with all the books behind you if you're watching this on video, all his books, 3000 books behind him. What is one book every entrepreneur should read? I know you said some of them Anti-fragile by Nassim Nicholas.
Speaker 3:What was it? Anti-fragile? That's the most important concept I've ever been exposed to, especially today. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's a hard read, cause he's so obnoxiously arrogant?
Speaker 3:but he deserves to be cause.
Speaker 2:He might be one of the smartest people alive gotcha.
Speaker 3:Okay, anti-fragile nice. Um, worst hiring mistake you've ever made. Ah, so many dude, dear god in heaven. Um, finding roles for people is number one. Find people for roles, not roles for people. And then number two, and this is one that everybody made when you know they're not a fit, cut them.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, how do you know when they're not a fit To be?
Speaker 3:honest. I hate such an esoteric answer, but you feel it, it's in your gut, you're like, I just know this person's not going to work out. But I mean, if you keep trying and they keep, whatever missing we're small businesses, the profitability, the time to sit there and wait for somebody to find themselves, right, you know, you make one mistake, it's my fault. Hey, this is a problem, let's not do that again. You make two mistakes. It's your fault. Hey, remember we talked about this. You make three mistakes, you're fired. And I don't mean little mistakes, right, I mean like hey, I, this can't continue. Yeah, you know, one, two, three done. And and I've gotten a little callous Maybe I love people to death dearly and deeply. You know I've spent an hour on this call, calling them miracles, and act like an effing miracle, or I have no space for you.
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, I like them. Um, so last one, if it's if, if everything's done, you're gone, you know you're dead. Um, and all of your accolades, accomplishments, life in general is forgotten, except one thing. What?
Speaker 3:would you want that one thing to be remembered? My kids, yeah, yeah. Well, I just want my sons to remember that I love them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Just being a dad man. That's awesome. That's awesome. I love that. I love my kids too, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just being a dad man. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. I love that, I love my kids too.
Speaker 2:So well, kostum, this has been a great conversation, man, I truly appreciate everything you've kind of broken down with hiring and the connection to AI and how we can do it better. Where can people go to connect with you, learn more from you, and things of that nature.
Speaker 3:Kostumme K that nature, kassimme K-A-S-I-Mme. All my socials. I do a YouTube video every day. You can have my books for free. You can hire one of our EAs Awesome, we can just hang out with your buddies.
Speaker 2:Cool, yeah, take them up on that. Go get connected with Kassim and check out his stuff, get his books and just continue to learn from him. Again, kassim, so grateful for you and your time today. Thanks again, appreciate you, buddy, thanks for having me Absolutely, and if you're listening to this and you haven't yet, make sure you go follow the show. It just helps us get this in front of more ears so we can make a bigger impact together and continue to go out there, make a difference, elevate your life, elevate your business, and we'll talk to you again next time.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Elevate Media Podcast. We'll talk to you again next time.
